Two forks ago we didn't have cheap L2 txs. Two forks from now we will have
- perfect parallelization of execution
- orders of magnitude more gas limit.
- orders of magnitude more blobs.
- better censor resistance
It's a no brainer tradfi is trying to tap into Ethereum
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Yesterday close to 8pm UTC the Ethereum network lost finality for 25 minutes. Around that time, several valid, but untimely attestations were broadcast in the network. This typically happens when a node that is struggling to be synced, attests with an old view of the chain. 1/8
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Prysm is already finalizing a devnet distributing blocks using random linear network coding. Signature verification changes so it's not a minor change, but it's also not so bad. Faster blob propagation may be around the corner.
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I love how biased is my timeline. Now that @deepseek_ai is hyping I'm suddenly supposed to be worried about my privacy in the hands of the Chinese government. As if I didn't need to be worried about the US one before.
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ePBS has an EIP number! from now on I'll be referring to EIP-7732. Here is a short thread of some things that this EIP brings to Ethereum. The PR to make it to draft is here
github.com/ethereum/EIPs/pul…
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Now that the fork is past, I wanted to describe a crazy scary bug in Prysm that got triggered in Goerli and highlights the importance of client diversity (surely worst bugs have gone unnoticed). 1/12
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Every single voice in the Ethereum landscape should be quoting this and giving it more visibility
hey @DavidSacks
@dannyryan is a former Ethereum core developer who led Ethereum through its most complex transition in its history, moving it from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake
he is cofounder of a new organization called @Etherealize_io, designed to help introduce the world to building on Ethereum as the #2 public blockchain by market cap and a leader in decentralized programmable blockchains
Danny would make an excellent representative for Ethereum and can help you not only brainstorm, but think through in deep technical detail how to architect systems which bring the US government and private businesses onchain
please consider adding him to the invite list for this and future Digital Asset Summits
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ethresear.ch/t/faster-block-…
Happy Friday and lets start the year with a light weekend read. It's a proposal to use network coding when propagating blocks and blobs. I'm pretty optimistic on this one given the numbers are amazing for propagation and get better with scaling.
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This is a 2-client devnet that finalized an ePBS epoch. Still very early, but it's a significant milestone to celebrate. Huge shoutout to @StefanBr93 @tbenr from @Teku_Consensys and @terencechain from @prylabs for making this happen. Some details in the thread.
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I was one of the ones being "conservative" about bandwidth and wanted to get more data on new improvements. Well, I updated my Prysm+geth node today The previous jump is new internet.
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Today I sat in an ACD call in which increasing the blob target for Electra was discussed. I want to post on two topics of Ethereum governance that transpired during the call. Firstly: I'm all in to increasing the count to the maximum that is proven to be safe!
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My new year's determination:
- be kind and more patient. I'm becoming insufferable to work with, my @prylabs colleagues patience is admirable
- be less irritable, ignore more topics and focus on the few I care most.
- touch grass and ship
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Am I the only one that is shocked by @tkstanczak in EF's leadership? He's an excellent leader with multiple highly successful projects, but as such he's heavily personally invested in competitive projects among them flashbots and staknet. It's disturbing for a neutral foundation.
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Today @TimBeiko posted a template on how to propose headliners for Ethereum proposals. Here is why I think EIP 7732 should be included right now.
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The goats at @ethPandaOps spent a days spinning devnets for us to test a PoC of RLNC for Ethereum mainnet. @parithosh_j @BarnabasBusa @_pk910_ @samcmAU were directly involved, but the whole team built up the tools to be able to quickly deploy 1000 nodes ethresear.ch/t/faster-block-…
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You got this backwards, solo stakers *are* the network.
At some point we have to decide whether to build a network for the Users or for the Validators. It seems many have forgotten the mission. Solo stakers are a means to an end. When they cease to be useful to the network or start getting in the way, they should be eliminated.
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Today I sat lurking on an Arbitrum room while they were looking at batch posting going crazy. I happened to be lucky that friends from the geth team answered to my pleas for help. A short thread on why the gas market for blobs is broken 1/
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My personal take for Fusaka. This does NOT reflect @prylabs' position nor has been discussed with them. 1) Forks should be scheduled with a time horizon. ACD has long refused to commit to a timeline since all the merge delays. However, not committing to a deadline drags... 1/7
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mainnet is having lots of invalid blocks coming from the same builder. The relay should never broadcast blocks without verification. We should consider including ePBS in Electra. Please raise support for this to be discussed in ACD github.com/ethereum/pm/issue…
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WTF @Cointelegraph ?? Is this paid advertisement by some other L1. It's not even shameful. I hope all these "crypto news" outlets burn in the deepest circles of hell
cointelegraph.com/news/pectr…
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From time to time I mention this but I haven't in a while. @beaconcha_in provides a terrific public good. Their free service is invaluable
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We should get ePBS shipped in Glamsterdam. It gives 4x time to broadcast blobs and blocks so can get much more of them. If you're a core dev please read implementation details and judge complexity for yourself against alternatives. If you're a com member: read in depth and voice
Explore ePBS: @potuz_eth Presentation from ACDC 158
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People that frame scaling L1 vs L2s as mutually exclusive are just idiots. Global demand is just starting to pick up and any scaling of L1 (resp L2) also benefits L2 (resp L1) users. We are scaling both DA and execution in the following forks without compromising CR nor liveness
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Announcing ssz++ github.com/OffchainLabs/sszp…
The fastest SSZ library out there. This is on a fresh full beacon state without caching
```
Deserialization: 27ms
Hashing: 23ms
```
If you find something faster DM me
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Before the free option problem blows out of hand and is used as a drawning man last attempt to butcher or stop ePBS. Yes it's a problem. Yes it can be serious. But also there's many attenuations and other considerations: 0/7
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I know many affected parties have dismissed this topic for the most, but during Berlinterop it became fairly clear that client engineers favor ePBS over the alternatives. This thread is an appeal for affected parties to voice your concerns/requests ahead of the next breakout
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Deposited a validator. Can't stress how useful beaconcha.in is. Doesn't matter how careful I am in crafting the tx, I feel at peace when I see the "valid" tick on the explorer. Thank you @Butta_eth and team
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Congratulations to both @drakefjustin and @dankrad. I sincerely can say that I would not be able to make that decision given the opportunity. Lots of things have been said on the topic, the one constant fact is that you guys took a personal blow on the matter
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Going to bed after a gruelling week of ACD interop. Can't think straight, completely drained. And I didn't code one line. Can't even imagine how my colleagues hacking all day make it through the week.
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This is a thread about enshrinement. There has been always a push from different sectors to have ePBS without the removal of trusted players. The common saying is "we may be enshrining the bad thing". I want to dispute this vehemently, and this may be a long thread. 1/11
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Prysm has posted its view on the incoming Pectra split. The document is short, here's a personal TL; DR;
hackmd.io/@potuz/rk9_ETt60
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I empathize with geth's stand on EOF as I know where they're coming from. Here's the perspective of someone that knows nothing about the EVM, but that understands the stress of consensus breaking bugs 1/11
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1/7 Detecting censorship is crucial for Ethereum's evolution. Introducing simple heuristics can fortify the network against potential threats. Let's delve into these heuristics and their significance. hackmd.io/@potuz/BkpzmOgK6
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I got recently shouted out in a podcast for some work I am doing. My first reaction was to feel flattered (would be inhuman not to). But my second reaction is shame. A thread in decreasing importance🧵1/10
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As promised, this is my reminder that ePBS is real now, well studied, implemented, and now supported by the majority of client teams
Stress-test ePBS (EIP-7732) vs. Electra on 1 GigaGas L1 (avg 200 MGas blocks ~4 s exec) w/ @potuz_eth over 4 epochs:
Electra: 28 orphaned blocks (lost rewards)
ePBS: 0 orphaned blocks
EIP-7732 is a game-changer for Ethereum L1 scaling! 🔥
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Thank you very much for stating this publicly and strongly. Indeed reading twitter these last few days has made me feel that either I should just log off and keep coding or leave the space altogether. Surely many feel the same disappointment with the target community of our work.
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Another mainnet incident caused by centralization, another post-mortem. I wanted to leave here some thoughts on the topic. Yes, if you know me you can envision that they will irrevocably involve ePBS.
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This is exactly the wrong take. We need to get to a future in which grandma can buy Xmas presents by logging into her Ethereum wallet and transact in some L2 abstracted away. When we send her to "use Ethereum to pay" it should be some L2.
L2s are not Ethereum
This is a branding / marketing / political alignment slogan that has very little basis in technical truth
Only Ethereum is Ethereum
Rollups inherent some properties of Ethereum.
Based + Native Rollups inherent even more.
But only Ethereum is Ethereum
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This is 100% achievable in a relatively short term if we set our minds to it instead of argue forever about not changing the status quo
L1 does not need to be as fast as Solana to be competitive. It just shouldn't be so slow as to push users away. TPS are not the main metric on which chains compete.
To me it looks like >10x is achievable without sacrificing home staking, we just have to quantify what the minimum node requirements are and build for it.
(The most important requirement that we would never drop actually isn't home staking, it's verifiability, which does need us to be able to run a node from home.)
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I will add that perhaps one of the worst mistakes we as a community (I personally included) did, was attacking early on @LidoFinance. There's a huge undeniable risk to their LST, but they're now among the (if not the) strongest causes for stake true decentralization.
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In the next Prysm release we have some big improvements coming!
- Over 1 TB of disk storage reduction
- 70% of less bandwidth consumption
And the option for 90% of CPU reduction and extra MEV extraction.
Our users asked and we delivered!
github.com/prysmaticlabs/pry…
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I'll be speaking on DevCon about the status of EIP-7732 (ePBS). Most probably do a small technical tour of the design decisions, the current problems and the possible future interations. devcon.org/en/sea/schedule/3…
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I don't understand ETH maxi accounts that keep posting about BTC security problem. What do they expect to happen? Hashrate will decrease to 51% attacks? Bitcoin core to fork and add inflation? Which BTC doom scenario benefits Ethereum? 1/2
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Projects that are client diversity maxis should airdrop to wallets of solo stakers that were down during the Besu and @nethermind outages
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If you are running a Holesky node with one of the bugged ELs we need you to update your EL to a fixed one right now. We need your validators to start proposing blocks and rely on their slashing protection to avoid being slashed. We need to get to about 75% to have a chance
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I don't know why the hell I repost threads that will reach zero people that hadn't read the original thread but this one is impossible not to repost . Few can be so eloquent and right like Lubin
I am honored to be asked to be a torch bearer for the run up to the 10th anniversary celebration of Ethereum's launch and non-stop, essentially flawless, operation of the protocol -- even as the protocol underwent many major upgrades "in flight" – without missing a block.
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I'm blocked from replying by @fede_intern, if Ethereum did everything like an American company, every client would have a government mandated NSA backdoor
I think the fact its survived as long as it has with as little American presence as it has is very impressive.
I'd say it's a differentiator. If Ethereum did everything like an American company, it would just be Solana.
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Two days ago Goerli underwent an epoch long reorg. This is how it looked. A thread explaining it. TL;DR; this *will not* happen on mainnet. 1/8
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Not yet, clients will communicate this clearly and openly in the coming days. In short the worst case uncompressed block with a gas limit of about 42M gas would not be importable by any client. The worst case scenario leads to a full liveness attack on the network.
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Did we get the rollup roadmap wrong? In the current landscape, I'm quite bearish of based rollups, and I think L2 preconfirmations are vaporware (to put it nicely) But I do think that the based rollup vision is the right one, just a dream one. Here's a short thread as to why. 1/9
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Regardless of right or wrong, having a large subset of the client devs feeling frustration or even anger is not dismissible. It makes for an unhealthy work environment one that is already stressful. This has to be addressed urgently 1/2
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Now that we're requesting community feedback I'm surprised not many L2s have expressed support. Incidentally going from 2 seconds to 8 to broadcast blobs will easily scale the blob number substantially, removing any bandwidth concerns. Cc @jessepollak (you guys lobbied for this)
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This is one of the highest signal moves that I've seen the EF doing. Kudos. Tying financial solvency to the success of the native currency is only natural.
The Ethereum Foundation is now borrowing GHO, a decentralized stablecoin backed by Aave.
The EF is not only supplying ETH to Aave, but also borrowing from Aave. The full DeFi circle.
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Something called my attention on this list so I took a few minutes to do a simple search. Surely I missed a lot and things may be hidden. So bear with me and please correct the numbers. Still I suspect the findings are not so off-base. 🧵
The EF Silviculture Society: a loose collection of individuals from outside the Foundation who provide informal counsel to the EF in tending to the (dark or otherwise) forests in the infinite garden of Ethereum, to make sure we sustain the core values of open source, privacy, security and censorship resistance.
The roots of the infinite garden are nourished by soils rich in these core values. Ethereum’s success depends on having talented and committed developers building with these values in mind, and EF’s ethos and work has always been centered around them.
@llamaonthebrink
@alpeh_v
@julianzawist
@_Enoch
@matthew_d_green
@Fatalmeh
@ml_sudo
@dystopiabreaker
@optimizoor
@post_polar_
@pcaversaccio
@LefterisJP
@mashbean
@1dot2
@kassandraETH
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I fully disagree with the finality argument. If you're going to have the same decentralized staked capital as Ethereum then yes, otherwise your finality is just trust me bro finality. If it's going to be trusted anyway you may as well trust it on an L2 with 1/2
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ePBS, EIP-7732 is the *only* EIP that gives the entire slot for broadcasting of blobs + execution payload. Let's get it shipped in Glamsterdam
the issue with re-execution from home is the bandwith, if we want to significantly scale the L1, any party that wants to re-execute the blocks would likely need upwards of a gigabit download speed. perhaps that is fine if lower end nodes can rely on just verification?
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Are builders censoring blob transactions? (Answer is "I think not"). This is a question that bothered me for a while since the first event of price discovery showed some were. This is not worth an ethresear.ch article, so a short 🧵1/9
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Who's working on privacy for Ethereum L1? I'm interested in literature on the topic in particular with a view towards enabling government enforcement of unblinding opt in transactions. Not interested in side chains shills but happy to study other ecosystems like Monero. Links?
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I don't care which kind of work you're doing in crypto, unless it's dealing with the ridiculous signing situation, it's useless. I just spent the last 3 hours trying to sign one damned tx. I couldn't. I can honestly claim that Ledger Plex + MM mobile suck! Moving my seed to grid+
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To end this thread: I believe blob count limit is not a matter of opinion so most of what I wrote above does not directly apply. Either clients can handle a long reorg/sync with higher target or they can't. But on most decisions, we need people to speak up!
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Reason to advertise the validator count, which by the way DOES mean something regardless what KOLs tell you, is that you actually CAN validate with 32ETH. This is unique of Ethereum among major chains. A 32 ETH validator will produce a block ~every year and will attest every 6'.
Other chains advertise their validator count rather than their unique operator count so I see no reason why Ethereum should handicap itself and not play the same game.
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In your face spectests! This is EIP-7732 passing all existing forkchoice and validation tests. One more step up towards ePBS.
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It's amazing the work that @cheekygorilla0x, @trent_vanepps and @TimBeiko are putting into PG. We can't thank them enough. While we do give some time to brainstorm/curate the split, they are giving all and more to steer it.
Our docs just got their first overhaul since the Pilot!
We hope this communicates the mechanism more clearly to anyone looking to learn more
↓ dive in ↓
protocol-guild.readthedocs.i…
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I don't think there's any need for @TimBeiko to read this. But anyway: there's a lot of anger, honest confusion and even disheartening at the EOF situation. But I haven't heard of any single person blaming or even insinuating that Tim acted incorrectly. The whole process broke.
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another. I even received DMs about this issue *before* the call happened. It is unacceptable to have back door conversations on issues that are transparent. We're all on the same team trying to find the best parameters that fit everyone involved. Ethereum is one of the most
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That's the problem of relying on a promise of non-censoring, what has happened since Sept 8?
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You seem to not understand a fundamental concept: it's not about any amnt of decentralization of the validator set. We will increase reqs for them. It's about you removing the fundamental right for anyone to verify the chain at home. This is the defining feature of Blockchain
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99% of my curated Twitter feed these days is just people I trust feeding the trolls. I think I have to give up and take this as a proof that this method to read about crypto global news sucks. Where can I get better signal/noise ratio on topics I don't follow daily?
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This, and more this, the 32 ETH are an unfortunate tech debt, but the very *only* reason L1 needs home stakers is that we don't know any other way to achieve censor resistance. Even with inclusion lists, if we lose the 10% or so home stakers it's hard to argue that we get CR
This is not true. We always wanted home stakers because of censorship resistance.
What is true is that not supporting in protocol delegation and having a fixed deposit size was due to needing large committees for execution sharding. But this has nothing to do with home stakers.
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Honestly, I don't know how much @ethereum pays these people, but it's not nearly enough... I can't ceased to be amazed, devnet after devnet.
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Loved this year's DevCon. The one thing missing: @dannyryan
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Thinking on starting a "peer reviewed open source Blockchain research journal" I'm pretty sure we can get very good referees and a couple of good starting issues. Latex sources only, no prints. Question is how to get a good editorial board. Yay or Nay? 1/3
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I'm siding with @LidoFinance on this one. It's highly opinionated to treat Lido as a centralized pool with 30% stake. There is a real risk in their LST IMO, but it's still opinionated. Fwiw I've also been critical of Lido before and I see CSM as a net positive.
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7702+7002+beacon block root opcode allows for homestakers to trustlessly deposit their staked ETH and get liquidity bypassing LSTs like @LidoFinance & @RocketPool_Fi. Who's building this? @aave, @ethStaker, @marczeller
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welcoming places in that if you have an opinion is not only heard but valued and taken into account. But if you never voice it up it will never be heard. This is particularly dangerous when there's economic incentives: people that have them may not care about voicing theirs!
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In case you haven't heard, there's an actual security problem if the chain goes to 60M so please stop advertising for this. At least until the next CL client releases. This is regardless of politics or whether I agree with the increase to 60 (which I don't).
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Ethereum is forking in little more than a day. Node ops need to upgrade both consensus and execution clients. Validators that use MEV boost need to upgrade it too!! The EF blog post doesn't mention this. Your CL should revert to local execution. But let's not tempt the devil.
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Bit the bullet and spent a couple of days writing a typescript app to avoid UIs and locally write all my txs. This industry is doomed. Navigating SDK documentation and the myriad of outdated contradictory official information is much more complicated than Ethereum's forkchoice
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Love to hear this kind of vibes! Specially when it comes from people I respect within the staking community.
Stoked for ePBS in Glamsterdam. This is huge for home stakers: 9s to get things done means moderate upload bandwidth remains enough. As well, it lays the foundations for zkEVM and proving.
BAL means parallel execution becomes possible and cores get used.
1/3
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My regular push to remind the community that ePBS is both doable and a most needed bug fix. The full design notes for a proposed implementation is hackmd.io/@potuz/rJ9GCnT1C the Python spec PR is linked there. Call your local core dev and ask them to look into this.
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No more forks, happy case is stable, some unhappy situations already tested. Still some work to do before updating the spec. LFG!
The bad things: We forked right after, we still have some peering issue that haven't pin pointed.
It's an early prototype, we don't count PTC attestations and we can't sync from genesis. Still no blobs and DA validation on Prysm. Still no builder API.
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So while I completely empathize and understand geth's position. It's great to see others taking responsibility for testing and checking, but it's also scary as hell, after all, Ethereum has chugged along for a decade relying on the stress of a few that set the bar on safety. /Fin
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After yesterday's events, and already soothed, a thread on why we should not have allowed this to happen. 1/18
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This stressed consensus clients in different ways to the point that they, specially those running on weaker hardware, started struggling to follow the chain. 2/8
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I've already noticed that the division of opinions seemed to be mostly along the lines of client devs and researchers, I don't think this was a coincidence. We need more client devs involved in basic research and we need more researchers learning how our caches work and break
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That is, if we know for a fact that such attestation is either from a struggling client (in which case is anyway useless to the network) or it is for a chain that we have not yet seen. We maintain safety since we will process these as soon as we see this chain. 8/8
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I was asked to put out a concise high level list of benefits that ePBS brings to the world. Here it is hackmd.io/@potuz/r1U45HEAR
- lower bandwidth and CPU requirement
- less missed attestations
- less reorgs
- no trusted intermediaries
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CT gives a bad impression of Ethereum, even of Ethereum core devs. It makes us fighting amongst us for this or that. Truth is we do fight (1/2 time at PG was 🔥) but we all look forward for interop as the one stop over of like-minded friends
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Loving that HackMD seems to be all in ePBS! 😃
it's that time again: user spotlight 🌟
we're continually inspired by the innovative ways you use HackMD. this week, we're shining the spotlight on @potuz_eth for their insightful project on the case for EIP-7732 in Fusaka. 👏
Keep up the great work! bit.ly/3VJqd8E
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