I have a few thoughts on this (having made the leap from a hedge fund PM seat to entrepreneurship four years ago). I started in my first hedge fund seat at 23 and I am 40 now. In my experience, only a select few individuals make it in a hedge fund seat for more than 20 years (I wasn't one). These people are obviously insanely talented and find some sort of soothing comfort in the repetitive grunt work, and also have a masochistic pre-disposition or autistic-numbness to the stresses of the job (i.e. no conception of burn out). But the industry weeds people out naturally as many top performers make enough cash to do something else, and mediocre/weak performers are exited involuntarily. Only the top performers who truly love it stay for 20+ years.
And let's be honest, there are some really awesome aspects of the hedge fund job. This industry attracts "intellectual Navy Seals". The intellectual rigor, ability to see through bullshit, building a collective view of where the world is going as a team. It was all so thrilling, for a time. The access you get to Fortune 500 CEOs. I was 23 meeting with Indra Nooyi at Pepsi and Paul Polman at Nestle just sort of pinching myself saying "how is this my life?". Brokers taking me to Nobu in Mayfair and Knicks game (and Uncle Mike ordering one of everything on the menu at dinner before, iykyk). Private jets to team retreats (I felt like Tom Cruise in The Firm, but with only the good parts). For the first 5 years, I absolutely loved the game. I slept and worked (with the weekly bottle service in meatpacking or Hamptons, of course), and nothing else mattered. I was in the room with healthcare policy makers and senators while Obamacare was being implemented, getting a masterclass on HC Policy from Berto at Aetna. For a kid from a small town in Idaho, being "in the mix" felt so cool. So intoxicating. And, oh yeah, you can make a lot of money. My dad was a steelworker who had to find a new career after a prolonged strike. This felt like a fun video game compared to the graveyard shift in the coater at Kaiser Aluminum. I cried in my CIO's office the first time I made a $1m bonus, then composed myself and walked out to central park and started celebrating like I had just won the lottery (to more than a few strange looks..."why is this guy in Ferragamo loafers having a mental breakdown?").
But, over time, my life situation changed. I got married at 27, had my first son at 29, and some well-timed real estate investments with aforementioned bonus cash provided some financial wiggle room. I had fun, for sure, but I always tried to keep my fixed costs low. I was the "I will work all weekend, run through brick walls for my PM" analyst, which is why I did well, overcoming some of my intellectual disadvantages to my smarter peers. This job isn't rocket science, but a chip on your shoulder, dog after a bone mentality is super helpful - and I had that in spades. My mantra was "no one will outwork me'.
As my first son became sentient, however, it really messed me up spiritually. I had to start thinking of someone other than myself for a moment. All of a sudden, it is a beautiful Sunday afternoon in Greenwich Village, and I'm torn between heading up to the GM building to grind all afternoon or spend the day with my wife taking Ben through the West Village to brunch in his stroller. More and more, my family won out. And I personally really struggled to balance both. Not just the hours (though 7:30am-9:30pm and Sundays was my standard), but the roller-coaster of emotions that I would bring home, and the necessity to just collapse and rest (usually with a few too many glasses of Macallan 18) when I did get home. That became a lot harder with the realities of a child, then two, then three. My father was far from an ideal parent, and I started to look at myself when I was stressed out, three scotches deep on a Friday evening after a 60 hour work week, putting all the work on my wife (who was super supportive, but I started to see her drowning) - and I realized something needed to change.
I wasn't aware at the time what was happening, so I placed this anxieties on my firm, and thought a change of scenery was the antidote. Welp, that just sort of accelerated the dark knight of the soul. For seven years, I had been a top performer, no down years, a rising star in the industry, hundreds of millions of positive P&L generated. I had built a reputation for myself that I was proud of. I got my shot as a PM to really who what I could do. I dreamt about $10m+ paydays. That didn't happen, and I went chin first into the Fall '15 healthcare unwind post Hillary-tweet. All the stocks that made me a star from '12-'15 now made me a bum. Add "public failure" to the list of anxieties.
Gratefully, that moment cracked me open. Was the starting gun for who I am today, 10 years later. I was brought to my knees. I didn't know what to do next. I met my wife for coffee in Bryant Park and I cried in her arms.
Then I got my shit together. That moment of surrendering to the feeling of career rock bottom invited what was next. I was really never the same after that Bryant Park moment. And it was the last time I've ever put my career shit on my wife.
I reoriented my life from 1) career 2) everything else, to 1) health (physical, mental & spiritual) - as I realized I cannot pour from an empty cup, 2) family, 3) career. I cut back on alcohol by 90%, lost 25 pounds, and with the dog after a bone intensity I applied to finance from 18-30, I dug into spirituality. I embraced meditation, read probably over 100 spiritual books (building a new framework for life primarily influenced by the writings of David Hawkins), went to India, bought a cabin in Sedona, and tried pretty much every spiritual modality that exists. My own masculine, hedge-fund style "eat pray love" adventure lol.
I realized that NYC has this insane, efficient, creative energy, that there is no place on earth like it. I love NYC. But it is a utilitarian place designed for achievement and creation, not for fulfillment of my personal soul journey, and I moved my family to Arizona in 2018. It was the best decision I've ever made. My sons are now 11, 9 and 7. I coach all of their sports, just got off a sabbatical in July with them, and have a truly special relationship with my sons & wife. It's awesome.
That's a long ass story, so I will now get to my attempt to answer
@blueprintsmb22 's question.
NUMBER ONE: I believe, based on 10 years of intensely rigorous spiritual study, that we all have a personal mission. Depression and anxiety are a signal from the universe that we are off track from that personal mission. Thus, very specifically to this question, step one is to figure out what is your mission. This is why one size fits all career advice doesn't work. At all. We all have a spiritual imprint, and I learned mine is aligned with "way-shower". I light up the most when I can shine a light on a young man or woman's path. My north star is to be as helpful as I can be to the 23 year old version of myself. Your mission may be to grind it out on the buyside for 25 years, but find meaning & connection in other elements of your life.
Here's the trick, you have to get quiet to learn your mission. It's hard to hear the signals from God, Universe, Source when your nervous system is hopped up on adrenaline. Find your best modality for getting quiet (nature, meditation, journaling). Let your ego know it's ok to rest for a bit. And apply some surrender, and ask for help. We can all do this (it's deploying the insight in the shower sort of intuition in a more structured way), then listen and trust that intuition.
So I'll finish up with a 3-part framework for career switchers.
1) WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO
2) WHAT ARE YOUR DEGREES OF FREEDOM
3) WHAT NEEDS TO CHANGE IN YOUR MINDSET
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO
I personally don't think this is a question of your ego. This is a demand of your soul. My belief is your soul signed a contract for an experience in this life before you were born. Your job is not to chase a career that gratifies your ego, but to get quiet, listen and say yes to the flow of life that will start to make life feel like a fun, pre-determined screenplay. It becomes the experience of Indiana Jones taking the first step into the abyss, but the bridge magically appears. Life like this is REALLY FUN when you stop worrying and just sort of knowing that the right things will show up at the right time (and if they don't, they aren't for you anyways).
I think a lot of Wall Streeters know what they don't want to do, but they have no idea what they want to do. Sorry to say, but until you figure this out, you likely won't go anywhere.
A key question I like to ask: "do you want to stay in markets"
Most former pod people are so fried in their nervous systems that they can't imagine staying in markets. I'd say maybe 8/10 never want to pick a stock again. However, when you check in with them in 6-12m, many get that itch (I certainly did). This is where I agree with
@blueprintsmb22 . Most former pod people likely *should* stay in institutional investing in some capacity. But here's the thing - you have to make your own path. At pods, we are used to headhunter linkedin DM's always serving up the path for us. There is a BIG world of institutional investing beyond what the headhunters will serve up. Go to adviserinfo . sec . gov and dig through ADV filings in whatever geography you want to work in. Find family offices, pensions, small long only funds, even larger RIAs. These can all be great, steady, stable jobs, and lots of my friends who have left intense, high velocity hedge funds have been very happy here. My belief is if you are at a pod and feeling burned out, the default path ought to be finding a more chill investing seat somewhere else.
UNDERSTAND YOUR DEGREES OF FREEDOM
All the woo-woo stuff is great. But if your burn is $85k a month, your degrees of freedom are limited. We, as heads of household, need to also be pragmatic. We have mortgages, private school tuition, nanny's. The hedonic treadmill in major metro areas is REAL. I am really happy with my move out of a major metro in '18. Sure, I miss NYC. I certainly fall prey to mimetic desire, and that's an endless pit in NYC! I've maybe been asked a dozen times in 7 years what I do for work in AZ in social situations. Identity is less tied up with career outside of NYC/SF, and for me, that's great (as my identity became less tied up in my career).
A couple practical tips here.
1) The right spouse is CRITICAL. My wife is awesome, wanted to be closer to her family in AZ, and never vibed with the Tribeca/Greenwich set. She wanted our three boys to have a more normal upbringing, as we agreed on (very good) public schools, baby-sitters for date night but no full-time nanny, economy comfort when we fly as a family, and she is fine staying at the Hyatt (not the Four Seasons). All those things add up. Our life might not seem like a dream life to many, but it's a dream life to us. And that's what matters.
2) Think carefully about your burn. The idea of "golden handcuffs" is real. A pivot from a hedge fund seat making $750k-$1.5m+ is really tricky. You can get back to that level in lots of industries, but not right away. The FIRE movement talks about 25x multiple to reach escape velocity (i.e. if you burn is $1m, you need $25m invested). The is a very hard threshold to reach for most in a HCOL city, but in a lower cost of living city, many can cover at least a portion of the burn.
3) Plan ahead. Degree of freedom plans can't happen in 3 months, they take usually years of planning. Build up 3 years of liquidity, slowly build up passive income streams. I had been working pretty hard for about six years on my exit plan before I finally pushed the button. My wife and I knew NYC wasn't in the cards long term so, for example, we always rented and never purchased.
WHAT NEEDS TO CHANGE IN YOUR MINDSET
I can't find the meme, but one of my favorite memes on Twitter is something along the lines of "everything you want in life is on the other side of cringe". That has certainly been true for me. I started tweeting my way into a now a pretty valuable distribution channel for my business. Was it cringe at times? Oh yeah. I certainly have heard from many cynical anon reply guys. It doesn't really bother me, since I know who I am, and I am clear on my personal mission. But there have certainly been times where I have thought to myself "oh I know my first boss reads these tweets" and felt a little pang of self-consciousness.
As hedge fund professionals, we build this sort of snobby-ish, "I don't chase you, you chase me" ego over the years. I was guilty of it, for sure. For those looking to make the leap, that has to be released. Whether you are going to reach out to 100 family offices, shooting your shot to get a job, shamelessly network to ask people for leads, or, like me, put yourself out there quite publicly to build a business, a degree of shamelessness and not caring what other people think is a super power on this journey.
I didn't figure this out alone, years of therapy, a 10+ year relationship with an intuitive coach, a 3+ year relationship with an executive coach, and reading lot of great stuff on social media (
@khemaridh and
@p_millerd in particular influenced me). I think The Pathless Path by Paul Millerd is required reading for those looking to take the leap. Hopefully this post is my small way of "paying it forward" to those folks.
And please DM me if you ever need some advice. My calendar gets episodically jammed up, but I am always happy to be a sounding board where I can, and we certainly try to use our network at Fundamental Edge to make placements for people making an in-industry career switch (the long tail of the industry generally works without headhunters, so we try to tap into that slice for career placement).
If you made it to this point, thanks for reading this far!
Hope it was helpful.
Brett